Transcript
WEBVTT
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Welcome to Baseball Coaches Unplugged with Coach Ken Carpenter, presented by Athlete One.
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Baseball Coaches Unplugged is a podcast for baseball coaches, with 27 years of high school baseball coaching under his belt, here to bring you the inside scoop on all things baseball, from game-winning strategies and pitching secrets to hitting drills and defensive drills.
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We're covering it all.
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Whether you're a high school coach, college coach or just a baseball enthusiast, we'll dive into the tactics and techniques that make the difference on and off the field.
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Discover how to build a winning mentality.
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Inspire your players and get them truly bought into your game philosophy Plus, get the latest insights on recruiting, coaching, leadership and crafting a team culture that champions productivity and success.
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Join Coach every week as he breaks down the game and shares incredible behind-the-scenes stories.
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Your competitive edge starts here, so check out the show weekly and hear from the best coaches in the game.
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On Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
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Hello and welcome to Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
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I'm your host, coach Ken Carpenter, and joining me for a second time.
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One of the most popular podcasts I've had since starting back in 2020, is the one and only Butch Chaffin.
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He's coached USA Baseball and he's been coaching for 38 years.
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Coach, thanks for taking the time to be on the Baseball Coaches Unplugged.
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Oh, always it's fun to do this.
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Well, I imagine you're in Tennessee.
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You're probably dealing with a little bit of snow, like we are here in Ohio.
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We got some last week.
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We got about four inches.
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We're not set up for snow, so we get a heavy frost and it's cool.
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Yeah, it's a little different than it is here in Ohio.
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Well, I wanted to bring you back on because you know I wanted to cover as many short little topics as possible and you know I wanted to start off with you.
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Know you being coaching with USA Baseball, you've coached some of the best players in the country and what, in your opinion, are the biggest differences that makes these guys the elite versus just your very good high school player?
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I think, obviously skill, you know they're all going to have skill.
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But we've had a lot of people who were first-rounders, highly skilled, who, when they're 17 years old and the first time they have to compete against other great players, they crack.
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And some kids are lesser athletes and the mental toughness that drives them and the mental toughness that drives them, they're relentless and their will to complete tasks is second to none.
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So basically they know they're good and they got a chance to really do well as far as baseball goes and move up the ladder and anywhere from college to professional level.
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I guess is it because of that they really invest so much time in making themselves as good as possible.
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There's all kinds of intangibles, which is we get blown up all the time by guys that have no idea what they're talking about.
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Oh, you picked the wrong guy, but they're not there with them.
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We in my two years with USA Baseball our best players love to compete.
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They love seeing pitchers lumping up now against the best hitters, the best hitters.
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They love to see the best arms, and I've talked to a lot of these players about it and they just love that.
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Competitive people and they still see the game as a game.
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It's not like a game, it's just a game.
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And to get in the box against, you know, a 17 year old is 96 with a power slider change and get a hit off, that just boost their confidence.
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And then if they don't get it, you know they go back to the dugout say I'll get him the next time because I've gotten before.
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So how do we get parents and and even the players to not put all this money and time into I don't know.
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I can't think of a better word propaganda machine, as far as some of the crazy stories you hear about travel, baseball and AU tournament and AU rankings and things like that and just focus on getting their kid a better experience, because ultimately, you know, when they're young like that, you don't know which way they're going to go.
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Right.
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I think the best players love baseball.
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They don't like it.
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They don't like to train.
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They love to train, they love to compete, they love to be there.
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They love it when it's 100 degrees and their pants are wet because of the sweat they're sweating through their clothes.
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They love it and they love being around their friends and they love learning and they love talking.
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And if you don't love baseball, you're not going to be a professional baseball player and you have to love it.
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When it's not being good for you, it's hard, you're not finding success, it's easy to love the game when you're hitting 500 and you're being named all tournament.
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They're coming easy and you know you're playing kids that are younger than you and dominate.
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It's easy to love a game.
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Can you go 0 for 1 in your first, get blown away by three fastballs, go back to the dugout, get, get an hour-long brain delay before your next hit bat and be ready for that next hit bat?
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You know you've got to love the game.
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You've got to love your peers.
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You've got to love the people you're playing with, your coaches.
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You've got to love getting good feedback.
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There's a lot of love in the tough to baseball and I've had a whole bunch of people ask me you know about health.
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How do you get up?
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How do you make it tough?
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Well, you reverse, engineer it and you create a level of game to where you'll go through anything to play the game.
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Say setup where you have practice in the morning, you wake up early, eat breakfast, you have meetings, you go practice, get on the bus, you come back, you take a nap 45 minutes, you're back on the bus, you take bad news to play a game and then, after the game, you review what you just did.
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You're given all kinds of feedback positive and negative, constructive and you've got to love it.
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And if you don't love it, you probably shouldn't play.
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I watched one of the videos where you were talking.
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I watched one of the videos where you were talking and you talked about why should batters train to hit hard versus trying to hit far.
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Can you kind of explain?
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that I think there's a difference between strength and power and eight-year-old with strength and if you master strength, hitting the ball hard, it's strength, power's helpful.
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I think if you have strength you're going to find power.
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And I just did a lesson at a camp with an eight-year-old at North Carolina.
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He's eight years old and the kid has one of the most unbelievable swings.
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It's super adjustable.
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He finds the barrel and I told his dad, his dad goes how should I train him?
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And I said never throw stuff at the kid, always throw hard.
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Get him on curveball machine because he's an advanced hitter and he's going to get bored, he's going to develop flaws and you're just flipping balls off the ad.
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So I got him in the cage and we were probably in paces apart and I was throwing a curve and he just kept barreling.
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He kept turning it up and he kept barreling and I said that's how you need to train him.
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He would be so far ahead of other eight-year-olds he plays with because he's used to staying hard.
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Don't scare him.
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I would rather have a hitter be able to adjust down than try to figure out how to adjust up while it's happening.
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You're a big culture guy.
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When I reached out to you over the phone you asked about topics we might discuss and I said Ohio State, notre Dame.
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I'm an Ohio State grad and fan and you know you're a big Notre Dame guy.
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So much.
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But your impressions of what Marcus Freeman and Ryan Day did with how they turned their teams around, because Notre Dame losing to Northern Illinois and then just tears it up from there and Ohio State having a tough loss to Michigan and they all of a sudden just go on a run throughout the playoffs.
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Obviously I'm a Notre Dame fan.
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I wanted Notre Dame to win that game.
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But what a great study of two coaches who face adversity from a different angle.
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For an angle, ryan Day loses to their arch rival and convinces his guys to do a 180, run the table in the playoff.
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You know, dual date it.
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I honestly believe this.
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If Ohio State doesn't lose to Michigan, they don't win the national championship Because they would have kept stumbling through, barely winning.
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Somebody would have got caught and beat them.
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But because they had skin in the game, they got bloodied up by Michigan.
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They got embarrassed.
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People were calling client up by Michigan.
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They got embarrassed.
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People were calling Bryant Day's head on a platter.
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It made them lock back in, concentrate and nobody wanted to play Ohio State in the playoffs.
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And then Marcus on the other side is my guy, came from Ohio State, linebacker from Ohio State, linebacker with Ohio State, goes to Notre Dame, follows a plethora of guys that I'll say it.
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They were verbally abused by really good players and it's really hard to build a strong culture when your players, you're on another team from them and Marcus comes in young guy, 38 years old, knows what he wants to get done, hires coaches that are older than him, who are really good football coaches, who are really good football coaches.
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And Marcus takes a team and makes them believe.
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And after the Northern Illinois game in week two, no-transcript every game, because the best they could do was fifth because they weren't in a conference and I saw a t-shirt and it said Catholics versus conferences.
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Instead of Catholics versus Catholic, it said Catholics versus conferences.
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And the best part we're going to lose is Notre Dame $20 million and doesn't have to split it with anyone.
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So you know we can pump that back in.
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So I feel good about that.
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But you have two culture builders who are under unbelievable amounts of pressure and Ryan Day got it done and Notre Dame didn't win and they weren't happy, satisfied, but you had to know that Marcus Friedman walked into that locker room and was super proud yeah, and I think, like a lot of times when you lose it, he learned a lot from that and they're going to be much better in the future, at least in my opinion.
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Hopefully we're entering.
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He learned a lot from that and they're going to be much better in the future at least in my opinion.
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Hopefully we're entering another golden age of Notre Dame football.
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Well, with mentally training players, what do you do to get your players to be tougher?
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I't know?
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Then, then maybe they think they are they, you know they, it's almost like you.
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You see a player and you're like you know you can get, you can do more.
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What, what do you?
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What do you think about that?
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I think you just said it and I've been saying it for years and I've told every team that I've coached you've got more than you think you have and you're tougher than you think you are.
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If you watch, like TikTok or any kind of videos people that get into fights there's two kinds of people that get into fights.
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There's people that get punched and they lay on the ground and just keep getting punched, like nobody's coming to save them.
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And if you can venture guys, you're tougher than you think you are and nobody to save you and I have to figure this out fight your way out of it.
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Um, the natural progression of solving problems is going to create stuff.
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Uh, if I went out and ran four or five miles right now, I'd be really proud of myself, and a long time ago, you know, I started running I've never been a runner when I was in college as a player.
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I remember running distance with guys going when I get done playing, never doing this again, and then years later, just to prove something to myself, becoming a runner.
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And then years later, just to prove something myself becoming a runner, and then having the courage to go marathon and running every step of a marathon in like four hours and the sense of satisfaction that I got was oh my god.
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You know, I did something that I didn't think I could do and I proved that to myself, and I think any coach that challenges players when they complete the task, they're super proud of themselves.
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So I think, to get toughness, you present tasks to players that they don't think they can do, that you know they can do, and then they do it and you show how proud you are.
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Right, exactly, I think that you know.
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I refer back to my military experience.
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I asked how I could make more money and they said hazard duty pay.
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And I said, well, what does that entail, money?
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And they said hazard duty pay.
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And I said, well, what does that entail?
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And they said you can jump, we jump out of airplanes.
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And I said, yeah, I'll do it.
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And then he said, well, we'll give you $85 more a month.
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And but I was terrified of heights and, uh, you really find out a lot about yourself when, uh, you're, you're in with a group of guys and the drill instructors jump masters.
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They made you do things that you didn't think you were capable of doing Absolutely.
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And in the modern military, those drill instructors, those drill instructors you had, were some of the finest coaches in America.
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They had to be, and you think about it, we're talking about baseball coaches.
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Those guys were coaching guys to survive and to do things they don't think they can do.
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You know, and I don't know if you know this, my dad was a computer and he was on the beach at Normandy the night before and I asked him he was planning the depth charges 83 guys in the office, 80 of them got killed and my dad made it off that beach.
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And I was like Dad, what were you thinking?
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I had to make it off that beach and he goes.
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I had no choice.
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I either had to get off the beach or not.
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And I found a way to get off the beach after I had missed my mission.
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Right, and I'm sure he referred back to all the training that he did too.
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Absolutely, he used to talk about.
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He used to talk, you know he was Navy Special Forces, started out as UDP and he talked about it was about the mission, it was about your guys and it was about your gear.
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You take care of your gear, you take care of your dear, you take care of your guys and the mission will take care of itself, yeah, and for him to do what he did, that's you know.
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you can't thank somebody for that type of sacrifice enough.
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You know, and I'm a kid and I'm like Dad, are you scared?
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And his son up there he's like we're all worse kids.
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But you got to through that.
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That comes back to the toughness piece.
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I don't think I can run these five miles.
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Sure, you can, but pick your foot up, then pick your other foot up, then pick your.
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Just keep going, pick you just keep going.
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Yeah, I, I always joked that, uh, every jump was a night jump for me and that was because my eyes were closed.
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You, know and thank you for your service but um, why?
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my most recent guess I had, on two division, three players and um, I had an opportunity to coach them when they were in high school and they talked about the differences between high school and college baseball.
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And they said that there were, you know, guys on the high school team that they had no intentions of playing beyond that high school experience and they were there to have fun and have a good time.
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And the guy, those two guys, they, they want to take their talents to play at the college level.
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And how?
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How did you reach the players that you had on your team, that they they had, you know, high school was going to be the end of their baseball career.
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Well, I think I had several players that when I talked to them they didn't want to play in college and they just wanted to play high school and, like you said, have fun, but they still wanted to compete.
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They still want to compete and I think the forgotten piece of it all is every kid that plays high school wants to play in college and that's not necessarily the truth.
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And, to be honest with you, I'm going to make you a baseball player and if you want to play in college, maybe that'll translate.
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But if you don't want to play in college, I still need you to be a really good high school baseball player Because we want to win these games and I always think about all my friends who say be where your feet are.
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I say, enjoy the moment, like, enjoy this moment, enjoy this moment.
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I think what happens to be honest, ken, is a lot of people in high school are thinking about playing in college.
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They miss the high school experience, don't enjoy it.
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It's so stressful because they're trying to get to college and then they get to college and then they get in college and it's really hard.
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They've never sat before.
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They have to sit, make their turn and then when they get in the game, it's really hard for them.
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If you're good, art never gets easy.
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Tara Lawson basketball her women's coach talks about hard never gets easy.
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You know it's always going to be hard and you think about it.
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You were in high school.
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You were in class, it was hard.
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And then you got in college it was still hard.
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And then you got a job it was still hard.
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And then you got a job and it was still hard.
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Life doesn't get easy if you're doing it right.
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I don't know.
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The last time I had you on was back, I think, when I say 2020.
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I don't know if I got a chance to ask this, but do you hate losing or love winning?
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I tell you what I come home to the losses a lot more than the wins.
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But I remember the big wins and where I was at with my school we had very average players and we'd have a really good player.
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So when we got to the state tournament we would win games to get to the state tournament, man on purpose.
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I tried to really pay attention and enjoy it and those memories are so fresh in my mind, like I can remember my principal jumping on me so happy he played for me and as soon as we get the third up to get our first tournament, he's jumping on me and helping me.
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And I physically lifted him out of the way and said watch.
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And I pointed at my guys' dog pile Because they had made this thing up in their mouth they were not going to dogpile until we got to the game to get to the state tournament.
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So I had never.
00:25:20.897 --> 00:25:29.993
I never saw it bug and I had waited so long to see my kids dogpile.
00:25:29.993 --> 00:25:37.271
And here my prince jumps in front of me and I physically pick him up and sit him down and go.
00:25:37.271 --> 00:25:40.181
Why I stood there and watched that.
00:25:40.181 --> 00:25:58.829
I had tears in my eyes and my coaches were jumping on me and I'm just locked in watching my guys jump on me and I'll remember that the rest of my life.
00:25:58.829 --> 00:26:04.497
I walked over and I shook the coach's hand and he goes congratulations.
00:26:04.497 --> 00:26:05.961
And I was thank you so much.
00:26:10.009 --> 00:26:11.942
But I can remember every second of the big win.
00:26:11.942 --> 00:26:29.175
I can also remember pounding out 10 hits and leaving a small village on base and losing the game one to nothing because the wrong hit kept coming into play.
00:26:29.175 --> 00:26:40.601
Yeah, I remember that exact game because on the first pitch of the game their leadoff guy hit a home run and it was the only run of the game.
00:26:40.601 --> 00:26:42.217
On the first pitch of the game.
00:26:42.217 --> 00:26:52.484
I can remember my team striking out 21 times against David Price and winning the game 1-0.
00:26:52.484 --> 00:27:01.124
So there are games, wins and losses that I remember.
00:27:01.124 --> 00:27:15.198
But let me ask you this, jen Is there anything worse at the coach than winning the game and not playing well and you feel like you lost the game?
00:27:15.198 --> 00:27:19.436
That's the one I hate, that's the feeling I hate.
00:27:21.662 --> 00:27:25.400
Well, I'm going to give you a hypothetical situation here.
00:27:25.400 --> 00:27:29.481
You have three players that you could have on your team, Group A or Group B.
00:27:29.481 --> 00:27:30.866
Tell me which ones you would could have on your team Group A or Group B.
00:27:30.866 --> 00:27:39.743
Tell me which ones you would rather have on your team Group A Okay, Mickey Mantle, Ichiro Suzuki and Barry Bonds.
00:27:39.743 --> 00:27:47.824
And Group B Pete Rose, Willie Mays and Hank Aaron.
00:27:47.904 --> 00:28:09.960
Willie Mays and Hank Aaron okay, mickey Mantle, even though I never saw him play, is my favorite player of all time, I think, see, I see what you've done here.
00:28:09.960 --> 00:28:18.104
I think Vaughn's seven MVP might be the best player of all time.
00:28:18.104 --> 00:28:23.279
I have a place in my heart Pete Rose.
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:29.741
I think Willie Mays is in the top three of all time.
00:28:29.741 --> 00:28:40.789
I think Willie Mays is in the top three of all time, and Hank Aaron might be the best right-handed hitter of all time.
00:28:40.789 --> 00:28:46.818
So I'm probably going to go Mantle, ichiro and Bones.
00:28:49.632 --> 00:28:57.059
That's hard man well, to finish up, best story in all of your years of coaching.
00:28:57.059 --> 00:29:02.209
I mean you told some that's a pretty good one there with the dog pile, but is there another one that jumps out?
00:29:04.949 --> 00:29:12.151
yeah, we, the year before, the year after that, we went back to the state tournament.
00:29:12.151 --> 00:29:21.623
We go to the state tournament and for about three or four days my back was killing me and I thought it was.
00:29:21.623 --> 00:29:23.348
You know all coaches.
00:29:23.348 --> 00:29:34.166
I thought it was because I overdid it on the field, trained a muscle, and so it comes game day.
00:29:34.166 --> 00:29:36.550
We start the game.
00:29:36.550 --> 00:29:38.775
It's back and forth.
00:29:38.775 --> 00:29:48.364
It's they get one in the first, get one in the bottom, they get one in the third, you get one in the bottom.
00:29:48.364 --> 00:29:51.412
It's doing that and both teams are leaving.
00:29:51.412 --> 00:29:55.925
Guys on base, kids are making diving catches.
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